| 0:00 | [Music Intro: There is a Dark Place by Tom Rosenthal]
| 0:27 | Jordan: Hey, I’m Jordan.
Lex: And I’m Lex.
Jordan: And this is Or, Learn Parkour.
Lex: A podcast about ADHD by two people who definitely have this, that ADHD.
Jordan: We really, really do.
Lex: Yeah, we, we really got it.
Jordan: It’s all up in there.
Lex: That brain, brain worm gray matter, being affected. All that, I can talk. Oh, what did we talk about last week?
Jordan: Last week, well two weeks ago, we talked about a lot of things. We talked about who we are and what you can expect from us on this podcast. We talk about what ADHD actually is, because there’s a lot of bad takes on it. We talked about both numbers and letters in a variety…
Lex: Both of them?
Jordan: A variety of arrangements.
Jordan: It’s like some Algebra up in here, but not. Because I’m very bad at math as we also talked about. [Laughs] And we also talked about Bob Saget for a bit, if I remember correctly.
Jordan: And what we’re going to talk about this week is how we both got diagnosed with ADHD. ADHD is women, especially adult women, is not super diagnosed, even though we can look up the numbers and guess that it’s probably pretty common, and both of us sort of went on a bit of a roundabout dosey do, Chutes and Ladders sort of journey to find a good name for what was going on, what specific breed of brain worms we have.
Lex: Yeah, no the neurodivergence is strong in both of us. And we weren’t sure what kind of neurodivergence, but it was definitely there. Clear as day.
Jordan: May the executive dysfunction be with you.
Lex: Mmm, and also hopefully not with you honestly. I hope that you have executive function. I hope that you are able to get out of your bed and go piss. Anyways, I think we should let these people know about your journey to get diagnosed with ADHD right now.
| 2:12 | Jordan: So, my…
Lex: Because, you know.
Jordan: Yeah, I do know.
Lex: I got diagnosed with ADHD. But I didn’t get diagnosed till after Jordan, and part of the reason that I got diagnosed is ‘cause Jordan got diagnosed. Just like Kool Aid man in through the door and was like, Alexa, guess what’s wrong with my brain?!
Jordan: Yeah, yeah. I’ll take this away. I set the, I’ll set the stage. I’ll tell you about my journey.
Lex: Yes. Yes.
Jordan: Because, once upon a time I was just a small town girl, living in a lonely world.
Lex: That’s not true, you had plenty of friends and family.
Jordan: I was making a Journey joke. Come on.
Lex: Yeah, it’s Journey. No room. No time. Hello? What is this? Glee?
Jordan: I hope not. So I was diagnosed with ADHD last fall. I was 24, it was the fall of 2019, back in the good old days. And I had originally started seeing a therapist for two reason, none of which I thought had anything to do with having a learning disability. First of all, I had just moved to Chicago, and I wanted a little bit of help with going through that big life transition. It’s a perfectly valid reason to see a therapist even if you don’t think you have a mental illness, but also everyone in Chicago has seasonal depression; especially me, because I moved here from a desert into a very cold city where I had no structure. One of my main symptoms that I was really frustrated with was what I called a lack of focus. I felt like despite my intentions, despite my ideas, despite my energy I couldn’t start tasks. And when I did, I rarely followed through and I occasionally I had days where I could sort of just sit down and write 10 or 20 pages, or clean the whole house or commit to changing my life and doing everything right. And this was going to be my time and I would do all of this research and I would go buy all these planners and the next day I couldn’t even pick something to watch on Netflix because that was too much of a big decision. And I felt like especially in the theater community I was watching the people around me do really cool things and I felt like everyone was getting more done than me. And I looked back on those few sort of bursts of focus and those few moments of success that I had and instead of saying like, “no you’re capable, you just need some help.” They just made me feel worse, because I was reminded that I was capable I just couldn’t, for some reason, use those skills.
| 4:18 | Jordan: So I went to my therapist, Margaret. Margaret, if you’re listening to this, you’re the best. Thank you.
Lex: This is a household that stans Margaret [Inaudible]
Jordan: We sure do. This is, this is a Margaret appreciation zone 24/7.
Jordan: But anyways, [Laughs] So I went to Margaret and she listened to what was going on with me, and she asked me a couple questions, if I felt like I felt bored quickly, or got distracted quickly. And I said, “yeah.” And she asked me if I ever had trouble completing assignments in school. And I said, “so many assignments.” And she asked me if I had a hard time keeping track of time, or keeping track of my things. And I said “like I was five minutes late to this appointment? Because I meant to leave 10 minutes early, and I lost my keys? Yes, I definitely have [Laughs] problems with that.” And she said, “you might have ADHD.” And I said, “Oh thank G-d there is a word for what is going on with my brain. It was a wild thing to be diagnosed with at age 24, because I had this experience of looking back at my entire and school career, and going, “who on G-d’s great earth thought I was a neurotypical child?”
Lex: You want to give me some examples?
Jordan: [Laughs] I would love to give you some examples.
Lex: Give me some, give me some of those good anecdotes.
Jordan: Absolutely. So it all started when I was seven. I was seven when I was put into like a gifted children education class. And that’s about where thing started going downhill. I peaked at age seven, sorry to tell you that, it’s just been digging for the last 18 years like started from the bottom and now we’re like reaching the mantle of earth’s crust. It’s very warm. When I was seven I, here’s how I was a student, I was considered a good student. I wasn’t a hyperactive. I pretty much broke the reading tests when I was in 5th grade. But I was still under-performing in math through my entire, entire school career. Like up through the last math class I took in college. I was checking out like ten to 15 books a month from the library. And I am sure that my family would still have like trauma flashbacks if they heard the name “Artemis Fowl.” ‘Cause that, I was very into those books. I very much had a crush on Artemis Fowl. [Laughs]
Lex: Oh, okay. Oh. I knocked the tissue box over.
Jordan: She knocked the tissue box over.
| 6:34 | Lex: Okay, so tell me more about this.
Jordan: No so I, I was avid reader.
Lex: I’m just imagining you writing like “Jordan Fowl” on your notebooks and shit. Like.
Jordan: [Laughs] That would be kind of a cool name.
Lex: Yeah, it’s great that Artemis Fowl is totally a real human being that you can go meet and date.
Jordan: I think that’s also why I was able to have a crush on him, because he’s unattainable and therefore safe. That’s a different episode. Probably not an episode, I’m just going to talk to you about that, Margaret. Moving on! [Laughs] So as a child I also discovered Yeah first two special interests, that was Good Eats and school plays. Alton Brown if you’re listening to this, [Laughs] I’m kidding, I’m kidding.
Jordan: I was obsessed with that show as a kid.
Jordan: I memorized all of the fun facts.
Lex: I know this and I love you.
Jordan: I just found out that they released new episodes of Good Eats this year. And while we were in quarantine, I spent a day sitting in my bed eating probably two pounds of chocolate and watching every single episode and not moving.
Lex: Yeah, you say when we were in quarantine. I’m definitely still in quarantine.
Jordan: Yeah, they made me go back to work.
Jordan: But when I didn’t have to go to a grocery store every day, I watched a lot of Good Eats, and…
Lex: Those two weeks were so nice.
| 7:52 | Jordan: They were really nice. Got so much done.
Jordan: Like eating two pounds of chocolate and watching Good Eats.
Jordan: And I think that if you would have told 10 year old me that we would be going through a global pandemic and revolution in 2020, I wouldn’t have believed you. But, if you would have said, “you know what you’re going to spend all of your time doing in quarantine doing?” I would have said, “Eating candy and watching Good Eats probably.” And I would have been right. So I was very into that show as a kid. I remember learning that what we think of as cantaloupes are not actually cantaloupes. They are a variety of melon called nusk melon, and “real” quote un quote, I’m doing air quotes for those of you playing along at home, are actually grown in Europe. And they are not really imported to the U.S. And I proceeded to tell my mom this every single time we went grocery shopping for probably three straight years. Moving on in my education [Laughs] in middle school, the gifted education program that I was in was just sort of a like, find a tutor to work on an independent passion project, which seemed really silly at the time. But, in retrospect just taking a bunch of neurodivergent kids and being like, “here’s a way to put all of your hyperfixation energy in a box that’s going to be derailing every assignment you get by writing an essay about the thing you spent the entire night before reading about,” is kind of a galaxy brain idea. So, not bad on that one, Richland School District. You can have a point for that. I got to high school, I continued to be exceedingly bad at math. But, I took up knitting, which helped and I did that in class. You know, like a normal 15-year-old with normal hobbies. Until I got in trouble for that.
| 9:30 | Lex: You know what, you know what that reminds me of?
Jordan: What does that remind you of?
Lex: I knew this one person when I was 15 and in school…
Jordan: Mmm hmm.
Lex: Who would draw and color…
Jordan: Mmm hmm.
Lex: During 10th grade biology.
Lex: To like help pay attention.
Lex: Which is great and wonderful.
Jordan: So valid.
Lex: But, then one day she held the notebook up, looked me in the eye and said, “hey, look at what I drew?” And do you know?
Jordan: What did she draw? Tell us.
Lex: Sonic The Hedgehog with a penis.
Lex: Sonic the Hedgehog with a human penis.
Jordan: [Laughs] On his body or just like he had one?
Lex: No, on his bo- like Sonic the Hedgehog [Inaudible] Like that’s…
Jordan: Oh, that’s I mean.
Lex: So, while I respect the hyperfixation in class as a mode of focusing, wowee, don’t do that, kids.
Jordan: Goodness gracious.
Lex: You will scar someone for the rest of her life.
Lex: And then she will make a podcast.
Lex: Okay so, you were, you know, totally normal.
Lex: Totally super popular cool 15-year-old kid.
Jordan: I had very very normal hobbies like knitting in class. And calling payphones to see who would pick up, and having conversations with strangers. This was before like Omegle was a thing. So you have to find a way to get your kicks. I did that, which will surprise nobody who knows me in my life.
Lex: I will say, I have no place to roast Jordan on this, but I will anyways.
Jordan: Roast away.
Lex: Because we all know, well you don’t know, but you do now – that when we get to my segment, she will roast me just the same.
Jordan: It’s a honey roast. It’s all in love.
Lex: A little caramelized.
Jordan: It’s all honey roasted all the way down.
Lex: Ooh. Almonds.
Jordan: How about cashews?
Jordan: No. Hazelnuts?
Lex: I mean, you can be honey roasted peanuts if you want, but like you can’t make me honey roasted peanuts.
Jordan: I thought we’d share, I thought it would be like a nice moment. Okay, you get, you have your almonds.
Jordan: I don’t like almonds. The texture’s bad.
Lex: Yeah, I don’t like peanuts.
Jordan: Well that’s why I said cashews or hazelnuts. We have many nut options.
Lex: Yeah, but almonds are my favorite.
Jordan: We’ll free you then. I’m going to move on and talk about community college.
Lex: [Snorts] Okay. Yeah.
Jordan: Because that was a thing. That sure did happen. So I did community college after high school for two years, and it was mostly frustratingly easy entry level English classes. One statistics class that I literally remember nothing from, and I think I scrapped by with like a C unsurprisingly and then I moved to Idaho to finish my bachelor’s degree. And I left a city with 300 days of sunshine and a ton of built in structure and I kind of did okay, because I was doing something that interested me. The nature of theater means that a lot of classes were hands on and active and interesting. But, I still remember like opening my theater history text book and realizing two hours later I was on the same page. I remember just like not being able to memorize things for scene work, because I didn’t care about the play, because it was True West, and I will never care about True West. Sorry, not actually sorry.
Jordan: And then I graduated somehow and moved home. And I had these big dreams of finishing all the plays that I had started writing. And like learning French and starting a fitness routine and doing like yoga and waking up early to make juice and stuff like that.
Lex: Gotta get that pressed juice.
| 12:53 | Jordan: Gotta get that, we had a juicer. I could have lived all of my juice dreams while I was working and paying off my student loans. And you know what I did?
Lex: Did you live those juice dreams?
Jordan: No! I did nothing. I went to work, and then I came home and I microwaved some dinner and I got on the internet, and then I went to sleep for like a year. Because there was no other structure. And then, I moved to Chicago, and I had big dreams of finishing these plays and getting involved with the amazing theater companies here and maybe like taking some classes. And do you know what I did the first year that I lived here?
Lex: Oh boy.
Jordan: I did nothing. [Laughs] I found a job and I spent a lot of time like rearranging our apartment.
Lex: Can attest.
Jordan: And that was it.
Lex: And I wanted to do these things. I wanted to write plays, I wanted to see plays, I wanted to make friends, I wanted to keep learning French and take some classes and get my juice on. And I just couldn’t until I went and saw a therapist who said, “There’s a reason for that. Your brain isn’t just broken; here’s a word for that. Here’s how we can cope with that. And I’m still very much working on that. I’m not an expert. I’m about a year into knowing that that is what I’m dealing with and there’s still a lot of road to walk there. But, that’s my ADHD story is that I got to age 24 and nobody [Laughs] across my entire life said, “This system and the way that Jordan’s brain works don’t quite match up.” I got in trouble for talking in class.
| 14:25 | Jordan: I got in trouble for fidgeting in class, I got in trouble for doodling all over my hands and getting told that I was going to get ink poisoning. I didn’t get ink poisoning, that’s a lie. I got in trouble for playing with things. I had a reputation of being the person who would mess up your Rubix cube so you could re-solve them when that was a thing in like 2007. Never learned how to solve them, but I just liked flipping the little things around. And nobody thought, “Hmm. Hmm,” until 2019. But, here we are.
Jordan: And that’s my ADHD story.
Lex: Yeah, to be continued.
Jordan: To be continued.
| 15:00 | Lex: ‘Cause now, now you’re making a podcast about it with your roommate.
Jordan: I sure am, and I hope that it helps some of you understand what’s going in your brains. And then you got diagnosed, right?
Lex: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Jordan: Do you want to share with the class here?
Jordan: Okay. All right, great. Podcast over then.
Lex: Yeah, see ya in two weeks! Okay. No, yeah, sorry, sorry.
Jordan: Been in a good run!
Lex: I would love to talk about my ADHD journey. I would love that. Jordan: Tell us about your special path. Thank you Bob Ross. Okay.
Lex: If we’re going to look at my life in a list of stats, like a video game, uh, I’m 27. I’m huge into pop culture and media. I’m a cat mom to a little tabby named Root Beer. She’s wonderful and a goblin and I love her, and she is the light of my life.
Jordan: She’s a very good cat.
Lex: She’s such a good cat. I’m very unemployed, but before the pandemic I mostly worked retail and service industry jobs along with my creative endeavors. So, I love to create things. I have always had the support and structure to explore that. I grew up in a super rural area, and then I moved all abouts you know, to Indiana and then to Idaho and now to Chicago. And until I lived in Chicago, I had always had immediate access to outdoor space and solitude in nature, which is very important to me, and I have not gotten enough of that lately. But, that’s like part of the structure that helped me function. Because basically I’m telling you all of this information to explain that I did not, you know, we talked about how Jordan was like, “How did someone see this child and not think there’s something different about this person’s thought patterns?”
Lex: Did you, did you check the label on this one?
| 16:41 | Jordan: You try turning it on and off again?
Lex: Yeah, like have you blown into it like a little Nintendo cartridge?
Lex: Like, what’s going on here? So, unlike Jordan, I was a child that if you looked at me you would not necessarily suspect that I had some sort of learning disability or any level of neurodivergence really. Because, I had a lot of structure built in for me and between going to a public school from G-d knows when in the morning till like 2:25, oh my gosh. Yeah, no. 2:25pm is when we got off. And then I was on the dance team, I was in band, I was in choir, I did theater, I played volleyball for a little bit like I had a pretty rich social life. I was friends with a lot of people and I spent a lot of time hanging out with said friends when I wasn’t doing school or those extracurriculars.
Jordan: So you were actually popular and cools.
Lex: I was on homecoming court. I don’t know how that plays into it, but I was on homecoming court and I was a cheerleader when I went to college. I yeah, so okay. Sure, yes, I was sort of popular.
Lex: If anyone from high school is listening to this, and you’re like she wasn’t popular, that’s fine. I still was friends with most of the people that went to our high school so, whatever. That being said, I was involved in all of these structured scheduled activities that I loved doing. And I was always getting to do all that and then go play outside, because we lived in the middle of nowhere. I do not ever want to go back to high school. I would really rather not be hormonal teenager ever again, but golly gee, that schedule, that whole structure for me? Great. And there are little things right? Jordan: Mmm hmm.
| 18:14 | Lex: Little things here and there that you could see the cracks potentially if you were looking real close. It just wasn’t sure obvious. And it wasn’t until grad school that I actually got diagnosed with Major Depressive Disorder and Generalized Anxiety. And after several meetings with my therapist and with my psychiatrist and lots of really uncomfortable deep diving into my past, it was deduced that I have probably been depressed and/or anxious and exhibiting those symptoms since I was about 11 or 12. And in hindsight you can see some of those earlier symptoms that are more linked to ADHD in women and young girls. You can see that further, further, further back. So, fast forward.
Jordan: Mmm hmm.
Lex: You know, from the adolescent me to getting through college somehow. And then the beginning of grad school I got diagnosed with depression and anxiety, as I said. And I got put on Zoloft, which actually helped quite a bit because it helped regulate all of the turbulent emotions that I was feeling in response to this complete lack of structure and everything. It ended up being okay. I got through it, I got my Masters degree. But, I got put on Zoloft. I got put on those good, good SSRI antidepressants and they helped for really like the past 3 ½ years almost. And then I lost my insurance and couldn’t get my Zoloft so I was off Zoloft for what, 2 months? It was not that long but it felt like forever. My life just crumbled. Anyone who knows me can probably attest to the fact that I was just not doing great. And finally, Jordan got diagnosed with ADHD-
| 19:46 | Jordan: I sure did.
Lex: -and then I started trying to figure out what’s wrong with me and then I went off my meds and things went to hell. And then, a very wonderful doctor helped me get back on my medication for a lower price so that even though I don’t have insurance, I can still take Zoloft. So, I started taking Zoloft again, and wouldn’t you know it, things got a little better. But then I was still struggling with structure and struggling with executive function, struggling with having energy at all. Even though I wasn’t sad about it, I was still not functional at all. So, after getting back on medication, and being on it for like a month or two, and still not seeing a ton of improvement- the thing is though, I saw Jordan going through all of these things and I was like, oh yeah! No, that totally happens to me too. Time blindness, executive dysfunction? Yeah, that definitely happens to me. But it’s just because I have anxiety and depression, so you know, it’s just that. And ummm- No, spoiler: I do have the ADHD!
| 20:42 | Jordan: One of us! [Chuckles]
Lex: Yeah. So, uh, I got diagnosed with ADHD Combined Type, which if you don’t know what
that is, listen to our last episode. You pause it, go back, we’ll be here.
Jordan: We’re waiting.
Lex: Yes. Did you do it? Okay.
Lex: Awesome. So I started struggling with who I am, who I want to be, what I believe in, when I was pretty young and I remember- Okay, vivid memory-
| 21:05 | Jordan: Lay it on me.
Lex: Imagine a 12 year old Lex, horizontal on a little bed in the complete dark, Ipod blasting “I Hate Everything About You” and sobbing.
Jordan: Oh, Lex!
Lex: And, do you know what’s happening outside of this bedroom?
Jordan: What’s happening outside this bedroom?
Lex: My family’s super bowl party!
Lex: And no one had- everyone just thought that I had just gone to hide in my room or some shit ‘cuz like I did that. If there were big gatherings and it was at our house and I was just done hangin’ out, I would just go up to my room and start reading a book.
Jordan: See, I think that’s the fundamental difference between us. We have a lot in common, but you do that and when I’m done at family gatherings I go take up one entire couch and pass out in the middle of it.
Lex: That’s fair. That’s my brother’s M.O. at the family party.
Jordan: Mmmm, respect, respect.
Lex: So, ummm, I was very depressed. I had no reason- Like, I should not have been able to relate to, “I Hate Everything About You.” I should not have been able to relate to that song and it should not have evoked the feeling that it did but it did. And so, I just have that very vivid memory which is like a little sad but also like absolutely hilarious to me because it’s still so on brand. Oh, also worth noting, I felt very much like I was an outsider and unlike other people.
| 22:20 | Jordan: Mm hmm.
Lex: And the only way that I have been reliably able to relate to others is through comedy. You do the thing where you crack a joke or you make a funny statement and the people laugh and then the dopamine just goes off the charts-[Whispers rest of sentence:] – and then you get addicted to it. So, that’s where we’re at. That’s pretty much all you need to know. Just kidding. [Snickers] So, things like that I have a lot of problems with, like maintaining structure on my own. I have a lot of executive dysfunction in my life, I can’t keep track of time, I am consistently overly early for things like work or appointments because I am so scared that I will have judged it wrong and be late, because I just cannot fathom how the time is passing at all. I would get really overwhelmed by certain noises. I still do. Mouth noises when people are chewing-
| 23:06 | Jordan: Oh God.
Lex: And there’s no noise to cover it. The noise of silverware on glass plates.
Jordan: Oh God!
Lex: One time someone was eating an apple in one of my undergrad classes and I almost had a full blown panic attack because I was just like, this is the worst noise. I do not remember anything we talked about in that lesson, it was just apple crunch noise. It was bad.
Jordan: Oh yeah. I’ve had full classes where I’m like I don’t know what happened here because this shirt is too scratchy.
Lex: Yes, yeah. Very much overwhelmed by the senses a lot of the time.
Jordan: Mm Hmm.
Lex: Yeah, so. I mean, I’m not gettin’ this in a super direct way but you can imagine I was a deeply anxious, deeply depressed child because I was always missing the mark-
Jordan: Mm hmm.
Lex: -a little bit and could not just relate to the people or think the way that the other people around me were thinking. And so, when I started making friends who could relate to me or thought I was funny, I soaked that up and that’s how I went from sitting alone in a dark bedroom at a super bowl party to ending up somehow in my senior year, on homecoming court. Now, it’s just a big old cluster and it’s a rough time to get diagnosed with ADHD right before a global pandemic.
| 24:14 | Jordan: It’s a great time to have ALL of your structure removed from your life, right?
Lex: Yeeeeah. It’s really bad actually. And I’ve learned quite a bit about myself. That’s great but it has also been a time. And I know that even neuro-typical people are having a really hard time right now.
Jordan: Everyone’s having a time.
Lex: So, yeah. So, I don’t want to discount that, right? I don’t want to say it’s just because- Oh, I’m having a worse quarantine because I have ADHD-like, that’s not what I’m trying to say at all.
Jordan: But there are specific problems that having ADHD exacerbates.
Lex: Yes. When Jordan was reading out the list of symptoms in our prior episode for both inattentive and hyperactive, I have all of them. It’s just like, oh someone has filmed my life. Please stop.
| 25:02 | Jordan: This feels very invasive.
Lex: Yeah, exactly. Like, I am in this picture and I do not like it.
Lex: So, I end up going through like the official testing diagnosis for ADHD and it was like, okay, yup, you have a very high likelihood of combined ADHD. My doctor was like, yeah, let’s get you on some Adderall and see how it goes for two weeks and then we’ll come back and we’ll talk about it again. And here’s the thing folks: Adderall A, works wonders for me and B, a couple of times in that two weeks where I took my extended release Adderall in the morning and then in the afternoon I took the immediate release Adderall, and I just like passed out. I was telling her about this, my doctor, and she was like, okay, that’s a pretty common thing. It’s that if you have ADHD and you take a stimulant, it actually makes you tired. So watch out for that!
Lex: But that was kind of a way of confirming that yeah, no, this is actually what’s happening. So, it’s been a very fast and loose journey for me and it’s very much aided by the fact that Jordan wen trough a long, arduous journey and I saw that and I was like, oh wait, that’s what that is? And then, she started sending me Tumblr posts about ADHD.
| 26:14 | Jordan: Phpppttt!
Lex: All these people on Tumblr were like, “Haha ADHD things!” And they’d start listing them off and I would just be like ooooooh.
Jordan: Just like crowdsourced collective experiences.
Lex: Yeah! And that was uh, yeah. So now we’re making a podcast about it because honestly, a lot of you probably have ADHD or you know someone who has ADHD.
Lex: And that’s okay. Like, it’s totally fine to have ADHD.
Jordan: It is.
Lex: It’s just a different way of understanding the world and interacting with the world.
Jordan: Mm hmm.
Lex: And there’s nothing bad about that. So, since then, I’ve been on Adderall, I’ve been still taking Zoloft cause it does help to regulate my emotions, and now-
Jordan: How does it feel like to have a word that describes where you are?
Lex: So good. That was a little different thought, because I did have a diagnosis.
| 27:03 | Jordan: Mm hmm.
Lex: It just wasn’t quite encompassing. Yeah, medication and everything has been so helpful but also being in a pandemic and not having any structure has been rough.
Jordan: Mm hmm.
Lex: But, at least now I know why it’s rough. I know why my brain is doing the things that it’s doing and I’ve been able to combat that.
Lex: This was really all over the place but that’s my ADHD journey. Do you have questions that would help guide this, mayhaps?
Jordan: Yeah. Well, I don’t think that I have questions but there was one thing that I wanted to touch on about how you said having a term that fits better is a relief.
Lex: Mm hmm.
Jordan: Because that’s a message that a lot of people get when they have ADHD, especially in school or work is this idea of “just do it!” Just apply yourself. If you applied yourself you’d be able to do it. You’re not reaching your full potential, your lazy, or your stupid or something like that.
Lex: Oh, I hate that word: lazy. I’ve been called lazy so much.
Jordan: And that’s not the case.
Lex: It’s not. It’s not.
Jordan: I don’t think that laziness is really a thing, because either you’re resting and you are entitled to that because we all are human and need to rest-
| 28:11 | Lex: Need sleep.
Jordan: Yes! Love sleep. Big fan of sleep.
Lex: Loooove sleep.
Jordan: Big fan of taking a second to step back and just enjoy your life without having to do anything. But I think it’s either a choice that you’re making to rest, which is a good thing to do, or there’s something in the way that is making that hard to do. So, I felt the same relief when I got diagnosed, of like oh, there’s a reason. I’m not lazy. I’m not a failure. I’m not just not as good as everybody else. There is a word for that and there is a reason for that and not only do I know that now but there’s a whole toolbox of ADHD help. Like you talked about there’s meds, there’s also techniques to organize your life and build structure and make things fun, and caveat: even if you aren’t diagnosed with ADHD, if you look at those things and they make your life better, hell yeah! Those are yours to use.
| 29:06 | Lex: Yeah. Hell yeah!
Jordan: And it’s nice to have the word to have a place to jump off and learn more about how you work and how other people work.
Jordan: And especially as women, as you have said in your journey where depression and anxiety happen way sooner, and it did with me as well, it’s important to mention that that’s how ADHD presents in women a lot and with much different symptoms than most people realize. So-
Lex: Yeah, and it’s definitely not biologically different-
Jordan: Mm hmm.
Lex: But the way that we react to our societal roles and pressure-
Lex: – is definitely is what would cause that. So, I just want to clarify it’s not like a Men are from Mars Women are from Venus sort of thing.
Jordan: Right, right.
Lex: It’s a-
Jordan: Socialization thing-
Lex: It’s a socialization thing of we are expected to be more emotive. We are expected to be more focused on being compassionate and empathetic and that often leads to being rather depressed and anxious.
| 30:01 | Jordan: Absolutely.
Lex: Because the worlds is the world.
Jordan: Absolutely. So you may have that in common if you see that in yourself but as you’ve heard from how different Lex and I- our stories were, it may be very different for you.
Lex: Mm hmm.
Jordan: So, if you were diagnosed with ADHD and you had a completely different experience than us, let us know.
Lex: Yeah. And I realize, I really didn’t talk about my symptoms, right? –that led me to this diagnosis. But, I mean, the hyper-fixation, the lack of focus, the lack of what people consider drive, the hyper-activeness, interrupting people, not being able to comprehend social situations as well. That was all pretty clear when I was clear when I was a kid but would not have been read as ADHD I don’t think at that time.
Jordan: Mm hmm.
Lex: But then again, if you saw your child laying upside down in a big armchair, reading The Hobbit, just all in one day, and not getting up for food, water, or bathroom breaks, just reading The Hobbit in one day- I will say, that one, I’m like, okay- whose kid is this?
Jordan: Speaking of-
| 31:00 | Jordan: Do you have a hyper-fixation you’d like to share with us this week?
Lex: I sure do.
Jordan: Take it away.
Lex: Instead of a current fixation, let’s talk about a little bit of evidence from my childhood that definitely, yeah, no- big hyper-fixation vibes for this kid!
Jordan: The O.G. special interests.
Lex: And I think, Jordan, you’re doing that as well this week, right?
Jordan: I sure am.
Lex: Yeah, talking about things that we were super into as “the kids.”
Jordan: Mm hmm. Those throwbacks.
Lex: So, I recognize that I am about to open myself up to a world of- you are all allowed to make fun of me for this.
Jordan: I have.
Lex: Uh, yes. I say this because they don’t know that. The audience doesn’t know they’re allowed to make fun of me.
Jordan: I’m encouraging them.
Lex: Okay, yeah. So-
Jordan: I’m saying, they’re not alone. That’s why we’re doing this whole podcast.
Lex: Yeah. Well, let’s not the whole point.
Jordan: This episode.
Lex: This episode, right now, yes. So, Neopets. Listen, it’s going to get worse. It’s gonna get
weirder. You think I’m just going talk about a fun site that a lot of people spent time in? Oh no! Oh no.
| 32:00 | If you’re unfamiliar, Neopets- it’s still a website but it’s a website that was founded in 1997 by some independent coders and business people and whatever. But, it’s a website that as we know it, was brought to life in 2005 or so. I was on Neopets.com from about age 10 until I was an undergraduate. And I’m not going to tell you my username. You all can make fun of you for this and I respect and welcome that roast but you cannot have my username for Neopets and you will never get it.
Jordan: [Chuckles] Can you give us a hint?
Lex: So, about fourth of fifth grade, when I switched over to public school and my life changed a little bit and I started wearing a lot of black and doing my makeup really aggressively all at the same time- Oh I also carried a little notebook around with me and I would write poetry or prose or like have sketches or characters. But never Sonic the Hedgehog!
Lex: So, ummm anyways, I spent approximately, well I can’t do math. But I spent most days after school if I wasn’t hanging out with friends, which I didn’t have very many of those in middle school- I would spend my afternoons and evenings and weekends on Neopets.com.
| 33:11 | Lex: And you may be wondering, how could she spend that much time playing mini games and feeding magical pets online? ‘Cause that’s what Neopets is. If you go to Neopets, you create an acoount, you get pets. They’re called Neopets. They’re magical pets and you have them, you feed them, you an clothe them, you can change the color of them if you get paint. But you have to like use the in website currency which is Neopoints.
Lex: And then they introduce later on, Neocash, which is when you pay real life money to make Neocash- it’s capitalism. It’s hell. But, I didn’t spend all of my times on Neopets playing mini games or taking care of my Neopets. I spent most of my time on the message boards. And which message board you ask? Which? Hmm? Oh, uh [Clears throat]- roleplaying. So, I would spend hours, hours doing text based roleplay with strangers on the internet.
| 34:06 | Jordan: And you turned out fine, right?
Lex: And before you get weird about it, because I know the word “roleplay” kind of invokes one of two images. It’s like the sexy kind or arguably also sexy if you’re into it, LARPing.
Jordan: It’s a Venn diagram but there is an overlap.
Lex: There is and I’m probably in the middle of it.
Lex: So, I am really opening myself up to everything on this episode.
Jordan: You know what? Sometimes people just have big swords and-
Lex: They like to swing them.
Lex: [Chuckles] On Neopets.com as a 10 year old, I was doing text based roleplay, which is like regular roleplay or LARPing except you’re writing about it. So, instead of dressing up as a character or becoming a character, you just write as if you’re the character. Think like fan fic but interactive.
Jordan: [Cracks up] Yeah! Great!
| 35:02 | Lex: Yup! And so, I was a part of several different groups and they migrated off of Neopets.com a lot of the time.
Jordan: To like LiveJournal or?
Lex: To, just people would create their own websites that were forum based for different roleplaying. They were often called guilds.
Jordan: Oh, mmmm.
Lex: Because on Neopets you could be part of like different guilds.
Jordan: Right, right.
Lex: And so, there were roleplaying guilds and my first ever experience with roleplaying was
Feral Clan: A Warrior Cats Roleplaying Guild. If you somehow have stumbled across this podcast and you were a member of Feral Clan, please, please, please reach out to me?
Jordan: Oh God! I would love that!
Lex: Because I had some very good friends.
Lex: And that’s the thing, it’s like you know, it’s funny and it’s goofy and I recognize that it’s a little offbeat from the norm.
Jordan: it’s a very early 2000’s internet experience.
Lex: Yeah. But, I was very lonely and I was very sad and anxious and I felt like I didn’t fit in and I
was told that I didn’t fit in and I was questioning who I was and what I believed and then I was going through puberty on top of all of that. And I had these books about cats that I really liked and I found communities on the internet thanks to actually one of my in real life friends.
| 36:16 | Lex: So, I did have friends. I wasn’t like that lonely right?
Lex: So, Kate, if you’re listening?
Jordan: Thank you.
Lex: It’s wild that we both have this whole thing and I am now putting you on blast but-
Jordan: Thank you Kate. You know who you are.
Lex: So, I was a member of Feral Clan for several years.
Jordan: Mm Hmm.
Lex: My first character was Leopard Kit and if you’re a Warriors fan you know it’s Kit and then Paw for the apprentices and then you get your Warrior name or your Medicine Cat name or you know, if you’re the leader of the Clan, you get Star at the end of your name. So, I had Leopard Claw eventually. You know Leopard Kit, then Leopard Paw, and then Leopard Claw. She had a mate. We did not roleplay that because who would? We were kids. We were just like yeah and they had a nice romantic time and then they had kittens!
Lex: And then I roleplayed Sparrow Kit and then Sparrow Paw and then Sparrow Heart, a Medicine Cat.
Jordan: What is Heart?
Lex: Heart, like a heart.
Jordan: No, I mean like what does that mean in Warrior Cats?
Lex: I don’t know. I just thought it sounded nice.
| 37:60 | Jordan: Okay. Alright.
Lex: I don’t know. I haven’t actually read Warriors probably since this time in my life and I’m very not up to snuff on my Warriors lore but I still have tons of Medicine Cat knowledge just [Makes clicking sound with tongue] just stored right up here.
Jordan: Well, to be fair, I haven’t read Warrior Cats ever so I’m learning a lot right now.
Lex: Great. Yeah, there’s 4 Clans. Feral Clan is not a canonical clan obviously-created our own sort of world. It’s very fun. But, Sparrow Heart was a Medicine Cat and that was the last main cat that I role played and I roleplayed some like random villains and stuff ‘cuz you always need those. There’s other side peripheral characters But my two main characters were Leopard Claw and her daughter, Sparrow Heart. On Neopets.com, your pets have pages, so you can go to your pet’s page and it has stuff about your pet. But if you’re on Neopets.com in this time period, you know that you can just teach yourself HTML and CSS and-
Jordan: Wreak havoc.
Lex: Change the game.
| 38:00 | Lex: I’m talkin’ profiles for all of my original characters! For Feral Clan and otherwise because you know that it wasn’t just Warrior Cats. After a while, I got into the medieval fantasy game, I got into the like modern high school AU sort of thing, being a middle schooler who had no experience with high school at all.
Lex: Granted, that’s the whole thing with roleplaying.
Jordan: Mm hmm.
Lex: It’s living out and enjoying experiences that you don’t have or get to have in your normal day to day life. So, it was a very rich community. It taught me most of what I know about storytelling and writing today and I was still involved in some roleplaying groups and forums up until probably my junior year of college. I kept it very quiet. Never told anyone what I was doing. But yeah, as a kid and all the way through high school and college, if I had time, and in middle school and late elementary school I had so much time, I would spend hours and hours and days and days and days just playing Neopets.
Lex: Yeah. And I set at the desktop computer in the computer specific room-
| 39:05 | Jordan: Aaah- those were the days.
Lex: Yeah. I would get a bowl of Cheetos.
Lex: And if my dad wasn’t home and didn’t need his fancy office chair, I would pull that over to the main computer desk. It was a lot. So, I recognize right, that I talk about this right after talking about how at about the same age, I was experiencing my first clear symptoms of anxiety and depression. They are probably linked and I don’t want to hear that. That’s none of your business, okay? Listen. Me alone day and night, talking to people on line having an impact on my mental health? Shut up! [Snickers]
Jordan: There were absolutely worse things you could have done.
Lex: I guess. But umm. Yeah, so Neopets.com, mostly roleplaying but Neopets was the avenue to get there.
Jordan: Hell yeah.
Lex: Still would love someday to get a Neopets plushy.
Jordan: They still make those?
Lex: I hope so. I mean, Neopets is still a website. It’s still going.
Jordan: Really? Wow.
Lex: Mmm hmm.
Jordan: I don’t know if I needed to know that.
Lex: That’s fine. You didn’t.
| 40:00 | Jordan: Oh no. I’m going to go beat my Fairy Bubbles high score right now!
Lex: Yeah, I will say a lot of the same mini games have still been there every time I’ve gone back to check it out and so like the Distructo, when you match blocks up, the Fairy Bubbles-
Lex: Those have all been there. But, I haven’t been on there-
Jordan: Fairy Bubbles was my jam.
Lex: I haven’t been on Neopets since grad school ‘cuz I did get on Neopets in grad school because I was remembering all of these things and I was like, I should check that out. It was an idea that I had.
Jordan: Again, there are worse things you can do while you’re in college.
Lex: Yeah. I did those things too though. So- [Snorts]
Jordan: Well rounded.
Lex: Yeah! Balanced. So, anyways, before I give anyone any more-
Jordan: Cannon fodder?
Lex: Yeah, anymore ammo at all about my life and background, how about you just take it away?
Jordan: I sure will.
Lex: Tell me about your formative hyper-fixation?
Jordan: Yeah, we are throwing it all the way back to late middle school, early high school. I had a pretty bad case of, “not like other girls” syndrome, which meant-
Lex: Oh no!
Jordan: I didn’t know. We’re working past it.
Jordan: But that meant that I wasn’t into some of the same things as other people my age.
| 41:03 | Jordan: I was never a horse girl, I wasn’t ever into like Egyptian history or mythology or boys or sports or things like that. I was into, as I think I mentioned earlier, calling strangers on pay phones and launching baby carrots over my house with a sling shot.
Lex: Right, okay. So, what you’re saying is that we would not have been friends at this point in our lives.
Lex: Cuz you’re listing all this shit off and I’m like yeah, yup, check! Horse girl, check! Love Egyptian stuff! Check! Love mythology of all kind, like- [Laughs]
Jordan: Not that I had a problem with any of that. I-
Lex: Just need something more niche?
Lex: Mm hmm.
Jordan: We’re just uh-
Lex: We were both very weird. Don’t get me wrong, but two completely different brands of weird that we would not have been friends. I’m calling it now.
Jordan: There’s only one way to find out.
Lex: So, whoever is working on time travel, chip chop!
Jordan: Bring us up. Anyways, if you would have gone back in time to meet 13 year old Jordan, she would have told you about how much she wanted to be a hot air balloon pilot when she grew up.
| 42:04 | Jordan: And this is not like a 7 or 8 year old fantasy of like I’m going to be a hot air balloon ice skating princess. I was convinced, because this was- this was like a year or two before I had to think about going to Driver’s Ed., like some of my cousins were learning how to drive. I was sort of thinking about adulthood life plans in the way that for some reason our system makes 13 year olds think about. I was convinced that I was going to have my hot air balloon pilot’s license before I could drive. Spoiler alert: it didn’t quite go that way but I spent my hours at my family’s desktop computer just looking at hot air balloon ads to purchase a hot air balloon.
Lex: I love this.
Jordan: And I had one designed ‘cuz here’s the thing with hot air balloons is you can actually get one for the price of like kind of a car. Like between-
Lex: What kind of car?
Jordan: 7 and 10, 15 thousand dollars.
Jordan: So, like a newer car.
Lex: A newer normal person car.
Jordan: Yes, a newer normal person car.
Lex: Yeah. This isn’t the 1200 Craigslist uh-
Jordan: This is not the Toyota Corolla.
Lex: This is not your Ford Taurus.
Jordan: But it is also not like a Transformer.
| 43:11 | Jordan: An average car, same cost. Uh, but that’s a used one. If you want to get like a custom designed hot air balloon, and I wanted to get a custom designed hot air balloon-
Lex: Are you- Hold on. Are you going to tell us what the hot air balloon would look like?
Jordan: Of course?
Jordan: I was gonna get there.
Lex: It’s delightful. I’m so tickled.
Lex: This is wonderful. I can’t even make fun of her. Like this is cute and fun.
Lex: Like, what the hell? Would I have probably bullied you in high school? Maybe.
Lex: Yeah, no and you were younger than me. Yeah, no. I don’t- All of you who are younger than me- Oh no! ‘Cuz, you were in theater so I would have been very protective of you.
Lex: But people who were younger than me and weren’t like in the arts, I was such a bitch-
[Whispers] I’m sorry.
Jordan: Anyways, I wanted a custom hot air balloon. It was about 40 thousand dollars.
Lex: [Whispers] Wow.
| 44:00 | Jordan: So, that is like the Transformer car I’m assuming. I’ve never actually looked into what it would cost to buy a Transformer. But I’m assuming that’s a thing I can purchase. That’s a real thing right?
Lex: Yeah, but I’m thinking of like really fancy cars- I think cost upward of like- I’m gonna Google it. [Snickers…sounds of furiously typing]
Jordan: Okay, I don’t know how much cars cost, I don’t know how to do math and I don’t drive. So, not my area of expertise or interest. You’re looking at me like you have information?
Lex: I do have information.
Jordan: Lay it on me Lex.
Lex: So, the average transaction price for an entry level luxury car is about 40 thousand nowadays.
Lex: But, the average price for a flagship luxury sedan is closer to 100,000.
Jordan: [Whispers] Good Lord.
Lex: I remember one of my friends as a child, her dad got a bright yellow Corvette convertible.
Jordan: Oh boysee!
Lex: He must have been going through something. But-
Lex: Sorry, that’s really mean. But I remember that shit cost a laaaawt!
Jordan: I bet. And that sounds like a lot of money now. It sounded like a lot, a lot of money to a 13 year old. And yet, I saved up.
Jordan: I did not get to 40 thousand dollars, let me be super, super clear.
Lex: Where is the-where?
Jordan: Probably at the University of Idaho because I then had to pay for school.
| 45:18 | Lex: Yikes.
Jordan: Anyways, I wanted a hot air balloon so bad. That was my life plan was that I wanted to be a hot air balloon pilot. I was going to work my way up from being run crew. Because for those of you who are not familiar with flying hot air balloons, which is probably most of you, they go up when you hit the gas which heats the air in the balloon which is technically called the envelope, up to be less dense then the air around it, which is what makes it float. You can let that air out of the top. There’s a hole in the envelope called the parachute vent and that lets the hot air out and you go down. But there’s no side to side. You’re just up there. You are at the will of the whimsical wind.
| 46:06 | Jordan: And if you’re very good at hot air ballooning and are very familiar with your area, you can kind of hit air currents to take a swing at a general direction. But other than that, you go up and there is a group of people in a truck whose job it is to follow you and then run up to some farmer’s door at 7 a.m. in the morning and say, “Hey, hey can we land a hot air balloon here please? Otherwise they can’t get down.” So, I was going to work my way up from there and then like apprentice and then I was going to like have my own hot air balloon tour over wine country company.
Lex: And now, you’re here.
Jordan: And now I’m here.
Lex: Making a podcast.
Jordan: Making a podcast.
Lex: About ADHD.
Jordan: About ADHD. I am still young though. There’s time. That could be my retirement plan. As long as you can qualify for a pilot’s license, ‘cuz you do have to get that first and then the hot air balloon license is like an addendum to it, you can fly a hot air balloon.
Lex: Mmm. So, you would very easily be able to get that.
Lex: She has 20/20 vision.
| 47:01 | Jordan: I have 20/15 vision. I’m ready!
Jordan: The skies are mine!
Jordan: And I’m gonna do it in my custom 40 thousand dollar hot air balloon.
Lex: Oh yes!
Jordan: That I designed as a complete rip off of a very formative Emmy Cicierega comic about a girl who lives in a sad house by herself and an interesting man in a hot air balloon lands on her roof and they fly away together. I read that comic when I was 13 and it seemed very adventurous and very romantic and I wanted that to be my life except I wanted to be in the hot air balloon. And it was like pink and blue and yellow striped with a wicker basket and that was my dream.
Lex: Wow! That’s incredible.
Jordan: It is. And I was so into hot air ballooning that for my- I’m trying to do mental math now and as we have already established, I am bad at it. But it was my birthday between my freshman and sophomore year of high school I think.
Lex: Mm hmm.
| 48:00 | Jordan: Oh God. So, I was turning 14. My family was on vacation in Grant’s Pass, Oregon and for my birthday, I got to go in a hot air balloon and it was honestly- it’s so, so easy to like pierce the dreams of childhood because you’re so small and your imagination is so big and it builds thigs up. But it was everything that I wanted it to be. It was like probably one of the coolest things I’ve ever done. So, even if I didn’t paek at 7, I guess I paeked at 14, which is not much better. That was still like 10 years ago. But it was very rad. I would go so far as to say it was rad as hell!
Lex: I’m speechless. Like, I recognize I have not interrupted you or made any goofs or bits. I haven’t made fun of you at all and I need you all to know at home-
Jordan: That never happens.
Lex: That never happens. Like, I’m just, I’m delighted. This is wonderful.
Jordan: You’re just lost in the balloon sauce.
Lex: Yeah, no, I mean. It’s just so wholesome.
Lex: You know?
Jordan: Yeah, that was my dream career for a long time and I spent a lot of time like planning out when I was going to get my pilot’s license and how much that was going to cost and the addendum and like where I wanted to fly hot air balloons-
| 49:08 | Lex: Mmm hmm.
Jordan: And it was a difficult decision because I really wanted to live by the ocean but it’s hard to fly hot air balloons by the ocean ‘cuz if they like go that way then you’re-
Lex: Kinda S.O.L.
Jordan: A little bit, yeah. So, That was a tough choice to make. But, yeah. Hot air ballooning was my life and my goal and my dreams as a young teen/pre-teen.
Lex: Wow. This has just really blown my hair back. I feel refreshed just hearing you talk about this.
Jordan: It’s so peaceful.
Jordan: It’s so peaceful up there. Because the thing is, is you’re being moved by the wind.
Jordan: And you’re standing in a big, wicker basket-
Lex: It doesn’t get much more Amelie twee bullshit than that!
Jordan: You feel like you’re just a living Longaberger commercial.
Jordan: And you’re in a big balloon. A big, brightly colored balloon that travels by fire. And because you’re being moved by the wind, you’re moving with the wind, it is perfectly still and peaceful. Up in the clouds-
Jordan: And you see the little, tiny city below you-
Jordan: Like you put tilt shift on an Instagram photo and you look down at the clouds and then you can coast down and scooch your little basket right over the top of the river and get the bottom of your feet wet through that wicker.
| 50:17 | Lex: Wow!
Jordan: And like coast back up in the sky until you find a good looking farm to touch down on and then you all drink apple cider in the end! And it’s really nice.
Lex: I’m so glad that you had that experience. Meanwhile, I’m like how high? How fast? How much head trauma will I get from this rollercoaster? But that’s another fixation for another day. Well it’s not really a fixation. I just love going fast.
Lex: Going fast and going high. I think I just like the sensation of being thrown.
Jordan: Proprioception. We all need that.
Lex: Yeah. Anyways, I hope that you all at home can find some peace just from listening to Jordan talk about hot air balloons and if not, I hope that you have your own thing that will bring you a little bit of- a little slice of-
Jordan: Flying through the sky.
Jordan: In a calming way. Not in a fear of open spaces kind of way.
| 51:00 | Lex: Unless you are also into the idea of being thrown, then you can join me in that.
So, thank you so much for joining us today. If this is your first time listening to us, I would encourage you to go back and listen to our first episode, because we’ve only got two right now. So, you’ve got time. You can find us on Spotify, Apple Podcast, most other places cool people listen to podcasts.
Jordan: Also, special thanks Krizia Perito for our special cover art design. You can find her at @petalhop on Instagram and you will be able to find her at the same name on Etsy. Get your hands on some of those cute stickers. I have some and they’re amazing.
Lex: They’re very cute.
Jordan: They’re so cute! It’s like a little cookie!
Jordan: It’s very cute. Thank you so much to Tom Rosenthal for our theme song, “There is a Dark Place” off of Keep a Private Room Behind the Shop.
Lex: And if you want to hear more from us or see more from us or just experience the Jordan
and Lex experience in 3-D, or 4-D, you can follow us on the “soch meeds.” We are @orlearnparkour on Twitter. We are @wearewpc on Instagram. And you can find more about everything at www.wearewpc.com
| 52:12 | Lex: And speaking of our website, we actually have a link to that in our episode description as well as links to all of our sources, links to a transcript of all of our episodes, links to our social media accounts. And we have started using content warnings because we are discussing things like mental health, especially like anxiety and depression. And you’ll be able to find all of those content warnings in the episode description.
Jordan: Hold on, before we go, I have a question for you this week.
Jordan: And that is: if you could design your own dream hot air balloon, what would it look like?
Lex: Oh, I know!
Jordan: What is it?
Lex: It’s just a face.
Lex: It’s just Waluigi.
Jordan: [Laughs heartily]…I’m Jordan.
Lex: I’m Lex.
Jordan: And this has been Or, Learn Parkour. We’ll see you in two weeks!
| 53:00 | [Music Outro]