Jordan:
Hi, I’m Jordan.
Lex:
And I’m Lex.
Jordan:
And this is Or, Learn Parkour.
Lex:
It’s a podcast about ADHD done by two absolute fucking idiots who have ADHD.
Jordan:
And us, Lex and Jordan.
Lex:
It’s both, we’re both. See? Idiots.
Jordan:
Yeah, we really wrapped that one up with a bow, right on the dot there.
Lex:
I don’t know how we’ve gone this long. This is what, episode 49?
Jordan:
It might be.
Lex:
Oh, shit. That probably means we need to celebrate next episode because that will be our 50th official full episode.
Jordan:
That’s wild.
Lex:
I didn’t even think about that.
Jordan:
Oh, my God.
Lex:
Well, that’s perturbing.
Jordan:
It’s the big five-oh. Our podcast is over the hill.
Lex:
Well, I mean that over the Hill means halfway through.
Jordan:
Hopefully not.
Lex:
Hopefully not. Although, I guess, well, you heard it here first, Jordan has decided Or, Learn Parkour will officially end after only a hundred episodes. Sign our petition to keep OLP going. It’s like our three diehard fans and no one else.
Jordan:
And you know what? That’s enough. We’ll do it for you three. Thanks for hanging out with us.
Lex:
For real. Thank you for tuning in all the time, but especially today because that’s where we are. We’re here today.
Jordan:
It’s where we always are.
Lex:
We always are, today, here.
Jordan:
New catchphrase for the podcast. Or, Learn Parkour, where we always are, today.
Lex:
Here
Jordan:
Here
Lex:
And there.
Jordan:
Or maybe that’s, no, here’s the thing, you know how radio stations are always playing the hits from the eighties, nineties, and today, maybe that’s the new replacement for that because that’s out of date. It made sense in the oughts. It’s the eighties, nineties and two and a half more decades of music.
Lex:
They’re just gonna be like, the eighties, nineties, oughts and whatever this.
Jordan:
Teens and now. That’s like 40 years of music change.
Lex:
Just say music through the decades, maybe. I mean, that’s probably the fix that some of them have already settled on. I don’t really listen to FM radio very often these days, I will say. Podcasts don’t really have many more legs to stand on than radio stations. So this is not a dunk, to be clear. But if you’re going to start listing the decades, you’re going to just be there for a while. There have been a lot.
Jordan:
There have been innumerable decades. And probably music since the very beginning of them, I would hazard a guess. Apparently plants make noise.
Lex:
Yeah, no, I mean, I was thinking, I was like, I mean, there’s evidence that mycelium structures of fungi or fungi or however you want to pronounce it, you know, they communicate and a lot of times it can be rhythmic. So there’s evidence that mushrooms make music too. That’s a really reductive way of putting it. But I just think it’s kind of neat.
Jordan:
It’s pretty neat. That’s definitely rad as hell.
Lex:
Well, and then it’s also like, is it music or what is music? It really begs the existential question of, is music only something that we humans can create and perceive or is music nothing more than rhythmic, vibrational tones and sounds?
Jordan:
I mean, I’ve always understood music to be using sound to make art. It’s very broad.
Lex:
Well, because I think of what is art then, you know? And this is, I’m so sorry, this week we are not talking about music at all.
Jordan:
No, completely unrelated. If you can guess, if you imagine.
Lex:
If this is your first time, this happens every week. Don’t worry about it. We’ll be fine. We’ll get there eventually. You just sit tight. It’s like when your mom is talking to someone at the grocery store and you’re like, ok, I can see that ice cream that I picked out is condensating, mother. Can we please get into the air conditioned car in this blistering Michigan heat? And then your mom’s like, no, no, calm down, it’ll be fine and it always is, you always get home. You always put the ice cream in the freezer, but you gotta trust
Jordan:
Put them in those little polar bags.
Lex:
Yeah. But you gotta trust that your mom is eventually going to stop talking to that person and eventually get in the car and go home. So don’t worry, it won’t be here forever. We won’t be here forever.
Jordan:
We are here today.
Lex:
We are here all today. Now.
Jordan:
But we won’t be here forever.
Lex:
Yeah. Well, forever. Really? Wow. You’re really bringing out the most stoner hippie sounding version of me.
Jordan:
Existential.
Lex:
So, yeah, mushrooms. They make music, man. You know, I just want to groove with the shrooms. Let me jam with the fungi.
Jordan:
Nature is the original artist.
Lex:
Ok. Well, you know, that one sounded like something I’ve heard in a college course before. It just sent me back. It just sent me back to my TA days, I feel.
Jordan:
Yeah, you know, I’ve definitely taken a couple of classes that were just, we did have something set to do today, but we’re just gonna sit here on the floor and talk about what is art actually? What does that word mean? We’re all paying tens of thousands of dollars to allegedly get a degree in it. But what is it actually? We don’t know.
Lex:
And then the next class you have that day you go and run around in the woods and pounce on each other like fucking animals, literally.
Jordan:
And then in the class after that you probably kiss each other. Theater.
Lex:
And you notably cried in all three. And that’s not a dunk specific to Jordan. That’s every single person I know. I don’t know anyone from the University Of Idaho Theater department who came out totally chill and normal. Respectfully.
Jordan:
You don’t go in totally chill and normal if you’re getting a BFA in performance.
Lex:
Yeah, it’s ok. I got a master’s in cultural anthropology. Do you know what that means?
Jordan:
No.
Lex:
I can study people real good.
Jordan:
Good.
Lex:
I can study people real good. What does that do? Nothing?
Jordan:
I mean, people are everywhere.
Lex:
Yeah, but you know who doesn’t like being studied? Most people.
Jordan:
I see how that can cause some hiccups.
Lex:
Yeah.
Jordan:
Sorry, bro.
Lex:
It’s fine. You know, it’s a fun ethical quandary and it’s fine.
Jordan:
You can study me if you want. Would that make you feel better?
Lex:
I already do.
Jordan:
Would that be good for you? I was gonna say it’s been, you know, coming up on five years now that we’ve lived together.
Lex:
I think I just have. I haven’t studied in a traditional academic sense. I’ve just learned by osmosis.
Jordan:
You didn’t have a choice.
Lex:
I didn’t have a choice. This is information that was forced upon me unwillingly. Just kidding.
Jordan:
Love you, bro.
Lex:
Love you, bro. Oh, so for real though, this week I did do some studying.
Jordan:
That’s true. You did and tell us, Lex, what did you study for this week’s episode?
Lex:
Sorry, my fucking cardigan, like, it’s me, grandma, Anastasia.
Jordan:
It’s a good way to wear a cardigan.
Lex:
It’s not always intentional. It’s, well, very rarely intentional. I just have little shoulders.
Jordan:
You do. I mean, I’m sasquatch so I can’t judge you, but we really run the shoulder gamut here.
Lex:
We do. We got the minimum to the maximum wingspan. We are set.
Jordan:
Your elegant little dancer shoulders that are just made to roll cardigans off of them. And I’m over here like your friendly neighborhood linebacker mom.
Lex:
Yeah. It is kind of fun because we’ve been dabbling in a house/apartment sort of hunt. Just sort of seeing what the options are, et cetera. And every time that we’ve gone to look at a place that has tall cabinets, instead of being afraid, I know that it’ll be ok because I’ve got a tall roommate.
Jordan:
I got your back. That’s what I’m here for.
Lex:
And if they’re gone,
Jordan:
You’re fucked.
Lex:
Well, I can climb on the counter.
Jordan:
We could also be adults and buy a step stool at some point.
Lex:
Yeah, I did just turn 30 so the danger of me actually hurting myself is increased exponentially, I feel.
Jordan:
On the day of your birthday just as the knob turns up, that’s how it works.
Lex:
Ok. Caffeine.
Jordan:
Very subtle, smooth, well crafted transition there. But yes, we are talking about caffeine on this episode.
Lex:
We were ready to jump back in and you asked me a question of what did I study? It’s caffeine, specifically, I did study caffeine and its effects or lack thereof or the sort of wealth of experiences and studies that show how caffeine affects a brain with ADHD.
Jordan:
It sure does. I mean, I take that back, actually, sometimes it doesn’t. That’s the weird thing about ADHD brains, but you’re the expert here. Tell us a little bit. So should we start from the top, what is caffeine? How do you see this education station playing out here?
Lex:
Oh, I was just gonna kind of go for it and see where we land.
Jordan:
Hell yeah.
Lex:
First and foremost, I’d like to say that this whole gray area that we were just talking about, some ADHD brains are affected by caffeine and some aren’t, I just want to say that overall the big takeaway is gonna be it depends because it depends on how much caffeine you take, how you are taking said caffeine. Well, the way that sounds makes it sound like I’m gonna go through all the ways you can consume caffeine, which, I guess I could do that.
Jordan:
You could, we’d be here for a while.
Lex:
We’d be here for a while and it’d be a really insufferable while. Here’s all the ways you can butt chug caffeine. Sorry. But, ok, so I will tell you more about scientific bullshit. But I just want to say if you’re coming into this episode and you’re like, well, I don’t think caffeine affects me. I have ADHD. So, what are you fucking talking about? That’s ok because every single thing I read was it varies wildly. There are some people who have no reaction whatsoever to caffeine. There are some people who have really negative reactions to caffeine and there are some people who claim that caffeine is the thing that keeps them functioning. And I’d like to say that that’s pretty accurate too to everyone else who doesn’t have ADHD. It just sort of seems like a caffeine writ large sort of attitude, which makes sense to me. But I don’t know.
Jordan:
Oh, no, you’re yawning. Did you not have enough caffeine today?
Lex:
Oh, no, I had caffeine and then I fell asleep because I have ADHD, my brain reacts in a sleepy way to caffeine. So, caffeine is a drug firstly, is the most reductive way to describe caffeine. It’s a drug. It is naturally occurring.
Jordan:
The irony of you yawning through this.
Lex:
I know. I’m like-
Jordan:
It’s so good. I’m leaving this in.
Lex:
It is pretty objectively funny.
Jordan:
Great audio too.
Lex:
Oh God. Well, sorry. At least it’s not a bunch of coughs and sneezes.
Jordan:
That’s true.
Lex:
So, caffeine is a stimulant.
Jordan:
Yes, we know about those.
Lex:
We sure do. So, caffeine is a drug that’s a stimulant. It’s found naturally. You can find it in teas and certain chocolate beans, coffee beans, most notably and then also you can find condensed, just the caffeine has been injected into things like soda and sparkling waters and as the human race, we have weaponized caffeine and distilled it into a substance that we can put in anything we want, which is kind of fun, I will say, whoever created 5-hour Energy made that knowing that they were creating something that was an affront to God. They were like, hey, the universe, sorry, but I’m gonna make some waves, baby. Here’s 5-hour Energy.
Jordan:
I see your rules but gotta go fast. So, and I mean, I grew up on the west coast, specifically the Pacific Northwest.
Lex:
Specifically Washington State.
Jordan:
Yes, So, if anybody knows the sheer amount of places you can hide caffeine and other consumables. I intimately know.
Lex:
Yes, you do.
Jordan:
That makes it sound like I do weird stuff with caffeine. Lots of drinks and foods that I put in my mouth.
Lex:
You’re making it even better. You’re just making it sound even better. Caffeine is a stimulant that does affect people who have ADHD as well as people who don’t have ADHD.
Jordan:
This is true.
Lex:
Coffee is one of the most consumed beverages on the planet.
Jordan:
And it has been for quite a while.
Lex:
Centuries. Literally centuries.
Jordan:
Yeah. I mean, I’m sure we would be here for another five episodes if we just talked about the history of coffee and tea and chocolate.
Lex:
Yeah. No, genuinely caffeine is a substance, historically, I will say, the majority of people, because it’s a stimulant, it makes them less sleepy. It makes them go faster. Scientifically, what’s happening is that a stimulant will raise the amount of chemicals that your brain uses to send signals. So one of those is dopamine. Dopamine, as we know now, is an incredibly important brain chemical to have in the conversation when you’re talking about ADHD and how it works in the brain because there’s still plenty of stuff that scientists and neuroscientists and psychologists and psychiatrists don’t know about ADHD brains versus, quote unquote, normal brains, right. But we do know at the very least that dopamine is a very important chemical.
Jordan:
She is involved. She is at that party. She is being seen. And it also changes the construction of the blood vessels in your head, right? That’s why it’s in migraine medication and Midol, I think. It might have a different reason in Midol, it might be because it makes you poop.
Lex:
I’m just gonna read a little excerpt just because I feel like it’s just straight and to the point and will kind of cover most things, but it’s from ADDitude magazine, ADD-itude.
Jordan:
You love them.
Lex:
Caffeine affects each individual differently. While most experts deem moderate consumption of this natural stimulant safe. Too much caffeine may result in side effects that range from nervousness, anxiety, rapid heartbeat, and upset stomach to restlessness, migraines, sleeplessness and muscle tremors. In addition to alertness and increased focus, caffeine may help weaken headaches, boost memory and even ward off certain diseases including cancers, Alzheimer’s and Parkinson’s. If you’re thinking, that seems like a mixed message, that’s true because again, it affects everyone differently. So it really depends on your brain and your body and how much your body is affected by caffeine or, and what those effects are like, right. So I think that was sort of the thing that I was noticing is that, it’s a stimulant. It will help keep you awake, it will keep your brain going. It’ll increase pretty much all of your neuro based functions. It just makes things a little bit faster, generally.
Jordan:
I feel like it’s like the Regina George of drugs, you know, maybe caffeine has a contract to do hair commercials in Japan. One time, caffeine punched me in the face and it was awesome. That kind of range, that kind of illustrious, infamous, we all know caffeine differently.
Lex:
We all know caffeine differently, but we all know her. The other thing to note is that there have been studies and there are studies that are ongoing about how caffeine affects the human brain. And specifically how caffeine affects people with ADHD. But all that said, most of the, quote unquote, scientific or not, ok, most of the, quote unquote, evidence we have about how caffeine affects ADHD, I will note, is anecdotal.
Jordan:
Yeah, that’s fair. I mean, that makes sense just given the general dearth of research on ADHD outside of how to manage white boys.
Lex:
Exactly. And I think that’s the other thing too, right, is because ADHD research, until very recently, has been so focused on children, who, historically, scientists and doctors have been like, hey, maybe don’t give caffeine to kids, better be judicious about it. And so I think it’s not even considered as a potential option for children, but for adults, some people report that between caffeine and a rigorous specific diet and exercise and all of the things that some people are capable of doing when they have ADHD and they claim that, you know, that’s what helps them manage their ADHD, you have people like that, right? But then you also have people like me who, if I drink too much Red Bull, I fall asleep. I go night night. Because that’s the other thing, is that sometimes I’m sure you heard caffeine can cause migraines or it can help cure migraines because it affects your blood vessels. It affects how fast and how many chemicals your brain is using to communicate with other parts of your body. So your heartbeat might rise, you know, you might get hot, you might poop. You know, sometimes people talk about waking up and using their morning coffee to get that first bowel movement of the day going. Oh, gross. So you know, it’s just so interesting to me because I feel like what effects does caffeine have? I don’t know, which ones do you have? It could do a lot.
Jordan:
It’s like a roulette. You kind of just spin the wheel and it’s like, what’s gonna happen to me today? That makes sense though because I know we’ve talked about when we were talking about stimulant medications, how, I know you talked about this being your experience and I felt that too, if you take just a little bit of Adderall and then you get super tired because it’s finally giving your brain the input that it’s been searching for and it can stop searching and calm down for a hot second. So that totally makes sense that hat’s a caffeine reaction. I mean, I know when I was a kid, very understandably, my parents were like, do not give this one caffeine. Don’t do it, she’s going fast enough, don’t do it. And then sorry, mom, sorry mom, I’m sorry, mom. I turned out fine. I remember the first time I had coffee, I was staying the night at my cousin Devin’s house and there was a Quik Stop kind of thing a couple blocks from her house and we walked to it and they had one of those shitty gas station coffee machines and they had a mocha option and I got it and to be fair, I had also just spent the night at my cousin’s house so I was probably tired anyways but drank the coffee. Parents came and picked me up, I went home and I went straight to sleep. Yeah. Now here we are.
Lex:
Now here we are.
Jordan:
I am drinking a Red Bull as we speak.
Lex:
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it’s tough because it does, I feel in my experience it can help with focusing, in the way that a stimulant medication can. And I will say, the general consensus is that even if caffeine does have an effect on the ADHD brain or the regular, the non ADHD brain, most people agree that stimulant medications that have been created to target these neurotransmitters and to specifically target those areas, you know.
Jordan:
Have been honed down and clinically tested and all of those things for a specific purpose.
Lex:
Those generally are more effective. That’s sort of the consensus there. But then you get into the, well, stimulant medication is not great for everyone either. And Ritalin versus Adderall say, on our side of the world is, one will work for you, one won’t, sort of the common adage, I think.
Jordan:
People have different reactions to them. Imagine that. Super fair.
Lex:
I guess my next question was going to be, Jordan, and you already started explaining this about the first time you ever had coffee, what is your experience with caffeine? How does it help you or not help you?
Jordan:
Oh, that’s a great question. I will say, first and foremost, and many of you who know me in real life probably already know this, but I am a caffeine fiend. I can and will just consume copious amounts of caffeine. And now that I am also on stimulant and other medication, I am more mindful of how much caffeine I consume and when and why and how that varies and how I can use it as a tool on days when I have more or less energy or focus. But I’ve noticed, overall, to explain how caffeine works for me, is that it works, but definitely not to the “oh I had a cup of coffee and I feel so much better level” that I’ve heard a fair amount of from neurotypical people.
Lex:
Yeah. Yeah. I think that’s the other thing I was gonna say, is that there’s not as much trend with people who have ADHD in the, “oh, don’t talk to me until I’ve had my coffee.” There’s a much less aggressive reaction. Some people speculate that it’s because the ADHD brain because it’s constantly in a state of, quote unquote, addiction in the way that we need dopamine and everything. Searching for that input. The idea is that we actually don’t, the idea, in theory, is that people who have ADHD will never have strong withdrawal symptoms from caffeine, specifically, the way that neurotypical people will. You still have symptoms, but they’ve seen in anecdotal studies that people who quit caffeine who have ADHD don’t have as bad or strong side effects from that withdrawal as people who are neurotypical.
Jordan:
Interesting. I did not know that.
Lex:
Yeah, that was one of the more interesting things that I read. I was like, oh, ok. But it also kind of made sense to me once they explained it scientifically as to why that seems to be. And again, we haven’t done enough studies on this to be like, here’s the resounding answer and here’s what happens and what doesn’t because neuroscience famously, you know, isn’t complex at all. You know, it’s not a set in stone thing. It’s not like, this is the scientific truth of it. It’s just interesting that that’s one of the things that has skewed more or as a more common answer.
Jordan:
Interesting. Yeah, I had never heard of that. But it makes sense. I feel like my relationship with caffeine or my experience with caffeine is sort of like if you took a neurotypical caffeine response, typical of the more you consume, the more you wake up and get the energy from it. But there’s a top end of it and you kind of shift it. So instead of a top end, there’s a bottom end, I feel like there’s a caffeine hump. Like if I wake up in the morning and I don’t take my Adderall and I just have a cup of coffee, one. Or if I just take a smaller dose of instant release, I will go the fuck to sleep.
Lex:
Yes.
Jordan:
So I need to hit the caffeine minimum before it starts affecting me positively. Because you know, like we’ve talked about there’s just that kind of search going on in the brain all the time. And I have to meet that need before I can start getting, you know, from zero to a hundred. I have to get to zero first if that makes sense.
Lex:
Yes, absolutely.
Jordan:
And also, I know caffeine is a thing that many other drugs you can kind of build a tolerance to and this is probably not great. I will put the blanket commentary over this entire episode. I am not claiming to have the healthiest relationship with caffeine or that things that work for me will work for other people.
Lex:
I mean, and also on that note, we’re not experts, we’re not professionals.
Jordan:
We’re not doctors of any kind.
Lex:
No, not at all. We’re literally just two people who have ADHD.
Jordan:And I’m from Washington. So, I do feel like that gives me at least some experience, a leg up on experience. But all that to say, a couple of months back, I was talking to my psychiatrist about the levels, the dosage of Adderall that I was on and how that was working. And I was talking to her about, you know, the rest of my diet, the rest of my habits because all of those things also influence how drugs affect you. And she was like, ok, so I hear that you’re not feeling like the Adderall you’re on right now is quite enough. What else are you doing? What are you eating? Are you supplementing with caffeine or anything else to try and keep you focused? And I was like, yes, I had two, I had four shots of espresso today and a Coke and a cup of iced tea and she just goes oh wait, you’re from Washington. She was concerned and then she wasn’t just because we have a reputation for being coffee lovers. And so I think that this, again, is very anecdotal, but I think that the prevalence of coffee culture just kind of raises everybody’s caffeine tolerance just a little bit. So that’s my reaction to caffeine. I consume it. It does help my focus and my energy and I also like coffee. I like tea. I like those beverages and so I’ll drink them anyways. I will also get decaf coffee sometimes if I just want coffee, but I don’t need more caffeine in my day. That’s the opposite of the topic of this episode. So moving on.
Lex:
Get out of here, decaf.
Jordan:
I do feel like there is an extra step of, like I said, getting to zero first before it starts to affect me. People expect caffeine to affect people and I do feel like I have a higher tolerance. So I have to keep both of those in mind when I’m using it as a tool in conjunction with my other medications with what else I’m eating and how else I am helping myself focus and helping myself get energy. So that’s my relationship with caffeine.
Lex:
Great.
Jordan:
How about you, Lex?
Lex:
Oh well, ok. So historically, hate coffee. I love the smell. I love a coffee shop, right? But the taste of coffee has always been pretty abhorrent to me. Coffee flavored desserts are on thin ice except for tiramisu. Tiramisu is just fucking good.
Jordan:
It is.
Lex:
But if it’s tiramisu where they put a fuck ton of just coffee on top, like coffee powder grounds, I’m like, stop.
Jordan:
Yeah, I see.
Lex:
I don’t like that, but that’s just me.
Jordan:
I think just putting coffee grounds on top of a dessert is generally gross. I don’t think you’re alone in that.
Lex:
So historically, I have also just not been the most connected to my body just throughout my life. And so it is, I will admit I think back and I’m like, yeah, I guess it kept me up or made me a little hyper or whatever. But I consumed a lot of sodas and energy drinks, in high school especially, and pulled a lot of all nighters in college, you know, I was doing that kind of shit, but I was also able to pull an all nighter without any caffeine. So I think it was more so just, I like these beverages, they’re sugary and delicious. I’m a kid, woo, you know. But I never really needed coffee, never really got into the habit of coffee until well, ok, I guess I did, I will partake in tea, you know, I’m a tea person for sure. In terms of a green tea, an iced green tea lemonade situation is one of my go to drinks in the summer. And so I do consume caffeine, but not necessarily the pack a caffeine punch that is coffee. And then when I was in grad school and I started taking antidepressants, I specifically take Zoloft and Zoloft is one of those drugs that, especially when you first started taking it, it really impacts the way your body takes in other substances. So if you drink alcohol or if you drink caffeine, things like that, then it will enhance those side effects. And so I remember the first two weeks or so that I was on Zoloft, I had a lot of side effects that were not pleasant, but it wasn’t that bad. But the worst was when I had a single grande green tea lemonade from Starbucks and then couldn’t fall asleep until 6 AM the next morning.
Jordan:
Oh God.
Lex:
And I remember being so confused and just so frustrated because I literally was just awake and alert. And so I will say Zoloft changed my relationship with caffeine quite a bit. And then there was a point in time here in Chicago where I was not able to get my Zoloft for a while. And I was really just kind of grasping at straws. I didn’t have an ADHD diagnosis at this point and Jordan will vouch for the fact that I was just doing my best.
Jordan:
You were doing your best.
Lex:
And at that point, I had started drinking coffee and hating it. I hated it.
Jordan:
I remember that.
Lex:
I hated it so much, but I will say I drank a lot of coffee and while I did feel like I could kill God, I did also get start getting really, really, really bad migraines. Because that good old blood flow, my little blood vessels were constricting and expanding way too erratically, I guess because I drank a lot of caffeine all at once and then I hurt my head. And so I started getting these really bad migraines and it took me a couple of weeks of drinking coffee and having these awful migraines to figure out like, oh, it’s probably the coffee. And so since then, I have, you know, gotten back on antidepressants and then I also got an ADHD diagnosis and got actual medical stimulants that are much better for me. But I will say to this day, I’m more of a like, yeah, I’ll drink green tea, I’ll drink black tea. Well, I’ll drink any tea, really.
Jordan:
We had tea this morning.
Lex:
We had tea this morning.
Jordan:
It was really good.
Lex:
It was so good.
Jordan:
Thank you.
Lex:
Yeah, of course. It’s those brown sugar cubes. I feel like the earl gray variations with a brown sugar cube. It just feels really homey and warm and delicious and it’s disgusting even though it’s late April, it was snowing this morning. I hate everything. This is the worst.
Jordan:
Third winter, good old Chicago, third winter.
Lex:
Anyways, I would say that I have a similar hump as you explained in that when I first took instant release Adderall, I just fell asleep. So I think between building up a tolerance and then also figuring out just how much I need to stimulate my brain that has definitely informed how much caffeine I can have or can’t have. And I know because I still am on Zoloft, right? And it still does affect that, not as much as it did back when I first got on it, right. My body has leveled out and gotten used to Zoloft because I’ve been on it for at least seven years now, which is bananas. Thank you, Zoloft. Truly. But because I do still, I think, have that extra sensitivity that I maybe didn’t have as much before taking Zoloft. If I drink two Red Bulls or three Red Bulls, then I will just be up, right? I’ll feel sleepy, I’ll feel pretty calm and relaxed. But I think just having that much caffeine in my body overrides all the other stuff and it’s like, you’re not sleeping, you idiot. So that’s my experience with caffeine.
Jordan:
Yeah.
Lex:
So I feel like we kind of run the gamut of caffeine experience in terms of-
Jordan:
They’re different.
Lex:
They’re different. And I think it just goes to show that all of the things I was reading were like, well, has a lot of options. It can do almost anything depending on what your brain is like.
Jordan:
And I feel like it varies. I know for me, I can say this is my general experience, but I also know one time I’d gotten into cold brew, you know, when that started gaining steam and I made my own, which is super easy. You literally just let coffee grounds sit in water, so easy if you plan ahead. Which is not easy as we all know. But anyways, I didn’t realize that you’re supposed to dilute it. So I had made my own cold brew. I poured myself a huge glass of it and was drinking it on my way to work. This is when I used to work at the pie shop and I got to the Damen blue line and I was like, ok. I think I might be dying. All right because I was-
Lex:
Just sad, I can just imagine your face just not wanting to make a scene about it. But feeling like, I think I might die.
Jordan:
Well, the thing is I wasn’t energetic, I wasn’t thinking, oh I wonder if this is from the coffee because I wasn’t feeling any sort of mental energy. My heart was just pounding.
Lex:
Yeah, that’s what I mean, if I have too much caffeine I’ll just stay awake. Not because I’m wired and super hyped up because my heartbeat won’t let me calm down enough to sleep.
Jordan:
Yeah, that’s my limit is about probably five cups of coffee over the course of a half an hour.
Lex:
Jesus fucking Christ. Oh, sweet mercy on a Sunday. It’s like we’re both just real dumb because you did that that one time. And then when I went into my caffeine foray, I will say probably part of the reason that it started giving me migraines pretty quick off the bat is because I went from zero to cold brew immediately. Because I was like, well, I need it and I need it now.
Jordan:
Give brain. Yeah.
Lex:
And so I went from never/rarely ever even trying coffee my entire life to all of a sudden like, here we go.
Jordan:
I mean, I feel like in terms of caffeine aside, in terms of coffee flavor, that’s really not a bad way to go because cold brew is a thing because it’s much smoother generally. And the acidity is way more balanced. And that’s the thing with coffee for me is until cold brew. I couldn’t drink enough coffee to have a harmful feeling amount of caffeine because the acid in my stomach would just be too much before I could drink that much. My junior year of college I did a 24 hour festival and I was an idiot. Seems to be the running theme.
Lex:
Of all our episodes, this one especially.
Jordan:
And I had volunteered to write and act in it, which for those of you who have never done a 24 hour theater festival means that I was up for about 36 hours straight. And I had just saved a gallon milk jug from drinking milk before and I just filled it with cold drip coffee and half a bottle of Torani vanilla syrup. My tummy hurted.
Lex:
Your tummy sure did hurted.
Jordan:
I shit so much.
Lex:
Yeah. So, yeah. Sorry, I’m laughing. Not because I’m mean, but because normally it’s the other way around, I’m normally the one that shits so much. So when it’s not me, I just have to take delight in that moment, you know.
Jordan:
Oh, please do.
Lex:
I know you understand, you live with me, but for the audience, I’m not just like, LOL you shit.
Jordan:
I love when Jordan suffers.
Lex:
Yeah, that’s not how it, no, it’s more of a, ah, yes, for once it is not I. It’s not I chained to this porcelain prison.
Jordan:
Yeah. But anyway, now we have cold brew so I canmake my caffeine anxiety much more efficient.
Lex:
Yeah. Yeah. So that’s the episode on caffeine.
Jordan:
Great.
Lex:
Yeah. I mean the moral of the story is caffeine is a stimulant and as you know, probably, stimulants are often associated as a thing that will help if you have ADHD. And so I decided to do some research on it and the research was pretty fucking inconclusive.
Jordan:
That’s fair. And I mean, like any other drug, it affects different people differently. But it can be a tool. I know there have been days where I’ve left the house and forgotten to take my Adderall and then, well, dang, I’m gonna have three more cups of coffee and that’ll help me hang in there. So it is a tool and it can be used, but it affects everybody differently. It does affect important parts of your body, like your heart. So proceed with caution is our blanket medical warning of the episode.
Lex:
The blanket medical warning is, I don’t know, it’s your body. We don’t have any say over what you do with it. And if you try to blame anything on us, we are not liable. You’re welcome.
Jordan:
Yeah. You heard it here first folks, we are not liable for anything. Never.
Lex:
So anyways, I was thinking for our DT this week we talk about something caffeine related.
Jordan:
Oh, perfect. I have just the thing.
Lex:
You have just the thing?
Jordan:
I do.
Lex:
Why don’t you talk about it?
Jordan:
Oh, I would be glad to.
Lex:
Oh, wait, that segue was so good. But for the folks at home who maybe haven’t been here before, the Dopamine Trampoline is a wonderful, lovely place where we like to hop on over and talk about things that gave or give or maybe we think will give even the fascination of the potential that it might give us dopamine, right?
Jordan:
The ghosts of dopamine past, present and future.
Lex:
We talk about things we like, we talk about things that make our brain go.
Jordan:
God bless us, everyone. Anyways. Yeah. So this is a segment at the end of the show where we talk about shit we like.
Lex:
Yeah, go and go.
Jordan:
Dutch Bros.
Lex:
Oh, very nice.
Jordan:
Thank you. This is maybe a familiar name to you if you are also from the Pacific Northwest. For those of you who are uninitiated to Dutch Bros or honestly, Pacific Northwest coffee culture as a whole, one thing about it, that’s wonderful and that I miss desperately in Chicago. Chicago, especially, I get it because there are just fewer parking lots around for people to set up shop in.
Lex:
Yeah, there’s just no space here.
Jordan:
Yeah, but I feel like I also see this less in the Midwest as a whole is just coffee stands. And a coffee stand is pretty much exactly what it says on the tin. It’s usually like a Home Depot prefab shed that somebody sets up in a parking lot and you can’t go inside. It’s not like a coffee shop. It’s just got a window on one or both sides and you drive up to it and they serve you coffee, or coffee drinks. It’s not just like, here’s your cup of drip, fuck off. It’s, you know, a coffee shop menu.
Lex:
They have a lot of stuff.
Jordan:
Yes. And I love them. They are very convenient. They are, have been a facet of my life as long as I can remember. I mean, even before I drank coffee and before I drove, you know, I remember stopping with my parents and it’s just, it’s convenient. It is space effective. And we all love our coffee out there in Washington State.
Lex:
Y’all sure fucking do.
Jordan:
Yes, we do.
Lex:
But I will admit, a Dutch Bros, because here’s the thing about Dutch Bros that I’m sure you’ll get to, but they don’t just have coffee.
Jordan:
Yes. So Dutch Bros is a coffee stand chain that is, I believe, originated in Grants Pass, Oregon, which is a beautiful city, by the way, if you’ve never been, highly recommend. And it’s a chain of coffee stands and they’re really famous for their kind of over the top, very kind of creative coffee drinks and non coffee drinks because they have, you know, your average, you can get a mocha, you can get a, you know, drip coffee, you can get a latte or whatever. But they also have, and this is not unique to Dutch Bros, but I feel like they’ve really pioneered the genre of Red Bull based cafe drinks, which is pretty much where you take a Red Bull and you pour it over ice and you add flavored syrups. And it’s great.
Lex:
Yeah, there’s some where you can just add flavored syrups and ice cream and then they blend it and you have like a Red Bull shake. They got Red Bull smoothies.
Jordan:
Yeah. It’s like an icy granita blended drink situation if you’re not in the dairy mode. So yeah, you can get different flavors. I personally really love the icy blended ones with, they have a sort of a soft whipped cream they call soft top. Get a little of that on top and then mix it in. It is beautiful and they have every kind of fruit flavor under the sun. You know, you can get pomegranate, you can get green apple, you can get blue raspberry, peach, coconut, lime, whatever. And then they have all of these super creative combinations of them where you can mix flavors and it tastes like Skittles or you mix, there’s one that’s called Starry Night and it’s blue and purple flavors. So it’s just really pretty in the cup. I know there was a Tri-Cities specific kind of coffee stand chain and they always did a Red Bull with strawberry syrup and then they just pour a little bit of orange juice on top to make it fresh. Oh, she was tasty. Very, very good.
Lex:
Speaking of orange, isn’t there also an orange cream one?
Jordan:
I don’t doubt it.
Lex:
Yeah, I think I’ve had, that’s my way of saying I remember getting the orange cream one in Moscow because they had that because based in Oregon, right? But it is kind of taking over the Pacific Northwest. And so in Idaho, there was one in the town where we went to school.
Jordan:
And it was crucially, aside from the Walmart, the only other 24 hour establishment in the city. So at literally any hour of the day or night, you know, as you do when you’re a college student, you can just drive in, they will hand you 32 ounces of Red Bull with extra sugar in it out the window and you just take it and drive away.
Lex:
It’s beautiful.
Jordan:
It really is.
Lex:
God, I miss Dutch Bros.
Jordan:
I know. And there is nowhere in Chicago. I’ve done a fair amount of investigating. I have yet to find anywhere in Chicago that even does like any kind of Red Bull based drink. If I’m wrong about that, please let me know. If you are in Chicago or have been in Chicago and know of somewhere I don’t, please tell me, God, because I miss them so much.
Lex:
To be clear, no alcohol, a non-alcoholic drink. Plenty of cocktails and shit that are mixed with Red Bull and stuff around here.
Jordan:
Thank you for clarifying. No, I mean a cafe drink.
Lex:
Yeah, people get a little more about their cafe experience here in my experience. You know what I mean?
Jordan:
I think that’s true.
Lex:
It’s coffee, it’s serious, bespoke and rustic and whatever.
Jordan:
And you can certainly find that on the Pacific Northwest obviously, Seattle exists. Portland exists. I will go ham on some Stumptown, I respect a good cappuccino or something. But also I think because of that elevated tolerance and just ubiquity of it, coffee in and of itself is, I’m trying to think about the best way to explain this because it’s, you know, people are certainly pretentious about it just because it’s a bigger part of life. But then on the flip side, because it’s so much more common, I feel like there’s a lot more freedom to get kind of more creative with it. It’s much, much more common, I feel like, to have a lot more flavor options or house special drinks. And even getting blended drinks, I feel like is less common.
Lex:
Yeah, I think what I would say in my experience how I would describe what you’re saying is that there’s such a large coffee culture and it’s become sort of a thing where it’s like everybody drinks coffee, righ,t out there and that there’s more of a market to get playful with it.
Jordan:
Yes. Absolutely.
Lex:
And I firmly believe that it could be great here. But the other thing that I’ll know is that the coffee stand model really depends on a drive-through situation. So I feel like this would be better for the Chicago land area because Chicago itself, there’s rarely even any Starbucks that have drive-throughs, there’s several Taco Bells that have no drive-throughs. You have to walk into the Taco Bell.
Jordan:
That’s absurd.
Lex:
But we live in a really big city where there’s not a lot of parking.
Jordan:
It makes sense logistically,
Lex:
But it doesn’t make sense to my heart.
Jordan:
Exactly. The coffee stand is an iconic cultural facet of the Pacific Northwest.
Lex:
And I feel like I specifically, and it’s nowhere near the level of growing up in Washington or going to school in Idaho, but I will say the only place that we’ve found in the Midwest where you can get your blended Red Bull drinks because, don’t get me wrong, it’s a Chicago specific problem in the Midwest. It’s not a midwestern problem because in my hometown in Michigan and the place where I was born, Kalamazoo, Michigan is the home of a place called Biggby Coffee.
Jordan:
Biggby. My guys. They’ve got me out here. They are my life ring in the ocean of Chicago coffee culture. Midwest coffee culture.
Lex:
Yeah. Any time we go to Michigan, I pencil in a time to make sure we can go get a fun little blended sweet drink for Jordan at Biggby Coffee.
Jordan:
And I appreciate it so much.
Lex:
Of course, bro. It’s right in town. Yeah, that’s the closest, Biggby is kind of the closest thing to Dutch Bros, in my head, in the Midwest because it’s another one of those places that’s a smaller quirky chain that was started by two people who went to Kalamazoo College, which, it’s called Kalamazoo College, but it’s a four year university and it’s the smart people school. That’s a really rude, reductive way to put it. But there’s the community college, there’s a couple of other trade schools, there’s Western Michigan University and then there’s Kalamazoo College in my hometown of Kalamazoo, Michigan. And Kalamazoo College is the small private school that costs so much money for the really, really smart kids. And these two entrepreneurs from, I think they, I want to say they graduated in the nineties or early 2000s from Kalamazoo College and they were these young dudes who started this new coffee chain and it is not blown up widespread around the country at all. But there’s a few Biggby’s in Indiana and Illinois, you know, there’s a few outside of Michigan, but primarily Southwest Michigan is the Biggby hub. And so it’s not the beautiful safe respite that the Dutch Bros sort of has across the Pacific Northwest, where you can just find it almost anywhere.
Jordan:
Honestly, they have their own app now,
Lex:
Of course they do, they’re always with it.
Jordan:
Yeah, and they have the other things they’re famous for, they do drink specials that are like, we just have this flavor for a certain amount of time. I think their last one was a honey lavender situation. I will say, God, I have not had a good blended honey latte out here at all. I have not seen it and I miss it and that is-
Lex:
I’m so sorry.
Jordan:
It’s ok. You know, I knew I was giving up some things when I moved out here. But right now Dutch Bros, they usually have a special coffee drink and a special hot chocolate, noncaffeine drink and a special, they call them Rebels because they make their own in-house, basically, Dutch Bros brand Red Bull adjacent drink. So it’s not technically Red Bull, but it’s called Rebel.
Lex:
It’s Red Bull.
Jordan:
Yeah, it’s Red Bull. But their coffee drink special right now is a chocolate crunch cold brew, which is cold brew with dark chocolate and macadamia flavor with soft top, that soft whipped cream and just crumbled cookies on top, like Oreo crumble. Which, hell yes. And then let me see what their Rebel special is right now. Oh, Dutch Bros, why did you put a stupid little slider on your website? That’s not very accessible of you.
Lex:
Dumb dumbs.
Jordan:
Dumb dumbs. This might take me a second. I might have to check the Gram. Wow I feel so at home, I opened up my Instagram to check on Dutch Bros and the first thing I see is a story from Cataldo. I miss you. Dutch Bros coffee. Ok. And their Rebel special, oh, it is a Mangonada Rebel, which appears to be a mango flavored Red Bull, Rebel, with real strawberry and Tajin.
Lex:
Whoah.
Jordan:
I know. And the other thing that they are kind of iconic for is their stickers. They usually have a new sticker design every month and they will just hand out free stickers from the coffee stands when you get a coffee, if you ask for one. And I know people collect them and they get pretty intense about it, but really good water bottle stickers just to slap on something. I have a couple of them. One of them has a really beautiful, intricately designed windmill because that’s their logo, is a windmill.
Lex:
The Dutch Bros, those brothers from the Netherlands.
Jordan:
Indeed. And then the other one’s a guitar. So they have range.
Lex:
They do, they do. I have one that is a very classic looking coffee label and then it says get up early and I like it a lot.
Jordan:
It’s a good one. But anyways, yeah. So Dutch Bros, any kind of coffee stand has my heart. It is one of the things that I miss most about the Pacific Northwest and always set aside a little bit of money for specifically coffee budget when I go home because I’m like, oh, I’m gonna be getting a little treat yourself drink every single time I leave the house because I can here.
Lex:
And you have to get it in while you’re there. Yeah, I understand. I can’t fault you at all. When I went back, I was with my friend at the time, I was like, hey, we gotta go to Dutch Bros at least once, please. Thank you. At least once.
Jordan:
Minimum, bare minimum. In other completely unrelated news, we are looking for podcast sponsors so, Tillamook didn’t bite.
Lex:
Dutch Bros, are you in?
Jordan:
Dutch Bros, are you cool?
Lex:
Dutch Bros, we love you genuinely. It’s not, I feel like you shouldn’t say the Tillamook thing because it’s not just because Tillamook said no, we just want all our lovable Pacific Northwest brands. we’ll be your Chicago outfit. Come on, come on.
Jordan:
We’ll rep you. If you get a Dutch Bros out here, I will be there every single day.
Lex:
That is true. They will be there every single day.
Jordan:
Anyways. What’s your DT? I know you got into the coffee situation a little bit. But what is your caffeine Dopamine Trampoline?
Lex:
Well, funnily enough. It’s Red Bull.
Jordan:
Great.
Lex:
When you said Dutch Bros, I was like, oh, this is perfect, I’ll do Red Bull. This is great because it works. They work great together because Dutch Bros uses Rebel, sorry. But specifically I took great delight when I was looking up some details historically about Red Bull. I took great delight in the history of Red Bull, is really specifically why. So Red Bull is one of the most widely recognized and known drink brands in the world. It comes third only to Pepsi and Coke and as of 2020 because it has, oh yeah, so it has a market share of 43%. So it actually is the most popular drink brand as of 2020. Red Bull is a line of energy drinks. I’m sure you know that if you’re an audience member because it’s a global brand that’s been around since the eighties. It’s comes in a typically blue and silver can. The logo is usually a yellow circle or sun sort of looking thing with a red bull on it.
Jordan:
Like from The Last Unicorn.
Lex:
I wish that was. When I was younger, I was like, so they named it after the Red Bull and they named it after the primary antagonist in the movie The Last Unicorn because it came out in the eighties. So I was like, that’s gotta be it, right. But no, no, it is actually a drink that was first made in Thailand and the brand in Thailand was called Red Gaur. And a Gaur is an Indian bison. It’s the type of bull. It’s the type of cow, bull, bison, whatever you want. You know, it’s a bovine animal that’s in Thailand. Primarily, I thought you’d find this interesting Jordan, it’s primarily popular drink among blue collar workers still to this day. Which makes sense to me because especially if you’re doing physical manual type labor. A lot of people, especially truck drivers and construction workers have some really crazy hours and so they will have to have all of that extra kick of caffeine and sugar to get them going. But apparently the slogan for Red Bull, Red Bull gives you wings, has been around pretty much since they introduced it as Red Bull in Australia because it’s an Australian based company now, Red Bull, but it was based on a Thai company, right? That had created the drink and called it the Red Gaur in English. And so Red Bull is, where is it?
Jordan:
I can see why you would think that it was named after the movie though. That would be great.
Lex:
Yeah. No, I mean it would be great, especially because I was like, Red Bull gives you wings. I don’t know, I guess the red bull in The Last Unicorn ran really fast.
Jordan:
I don’t know
Lex:
It did.
Jordan:
I don’t remember. I remember that there was a Red Bull. That’s about it.
Lex:
I know. But ok, since its launch in 1987 in Australia, more than 100 billion cans of Red Bull have been sold worldwide.
Jordan:
Holy smokes. That’s a lot.
Lex:
Yeah, with just 11.5 billion in 2022 alone. This drink is getting more and more popular, which some attribute to the fact that they’ve branched out into all of these flavors and they continue to try out new flavors. If you’re wondering, specifically the thing that gave me delight was the fact that they just were like, look at this cool fucking cow, let’s name it after this guy. And everyone was like, yeah!
Jordan:
Was there something specific about the gaur?
Lex:
No, it’s just the label that they already had.
Jordan:
There’s not something specific about that type of bovine that is related to having energy or they’re just like, that’s cool as hell.
Lex:
Yeah.
Jordan:
Great.
Lex:
There’s no real explanation.
Jordan:
I love that.
Lex:
Yeah. Red Bull has gone on to be one of the biggest sponsors of entertainers, you know, athletes.
Jordan:
Podcasts?
Lex:
Maybe, maybe. I’m sure we can’t get Coke or Pepsi but Red Bull.
Jordan:
I would pick Red Bull over either of them anyway.
Lex:
Oh, same, same. Which leads me to ask, my personal favorite flavor is the coconut berry flavor. It’s the one in the white can.
Jordan:
I know.
Lex:
What yours?
Jordan:
There’s two that are my go-to and I would say either the nectarine or the apricot.
Lex:
Yeah. Oh, I mean, and yeah, that’s the other thing, I’ll drink any of them probably.
Jordan:
Same.
Lex:
I also really like the blueberry one. That’s usually my backup because a lot of places run out of the coconut berry because it’s really fucking good.
Jordan:
It is very good.
Lex:
Yeah, Red Bull. I like Red Bull. I like drinking it. I like the way it tastes.
Jordan:
Did you know that Aldi carries a generic Aldi brand Red Bull called Summit Red Thunder.
Lex:
Oh.
Jordan:
And it’s like five bucks for a pack of four of them or something like that.
Lex:
Good Lord.
Jordan:
Also, did you know that there’s a company online that I’m blanking on the name of, but they make a caffeinated Red Bull flavor concentrate.
Lex:
Oh yes.
Jordan:
You can just mix it with soda water and basically make your own Red Bull flavored energy drinks and you can buy it on the internet and they will ship it to your house.
Lex:
Have they done that? Have they shipped it to our house?
Jordan:
Yes. Yeah, it has not arrived here yet. I’ll keep you posted.
Lex:
I’m very excited, honestly.
Jordan:
32 ounces.
Lex:
I saw Jordan unload a giant pack of soda waters and I was like, ohhh, the time is nigh.
Jordan:
We’ll keep you all posted, audience, on how that goes.
Lex:
Yeah, we’ll tell you if we die.
Jordan:
Yep.
Lex:
So anyways, yeah, that’s my caffeine Dopamine Trampoline. I like Red Bull.
Jordan:
They’re good.
Lex:
They’re good.
Jordan:
I’m drinking right now.
Lex:
You sure are. This podcast closet has smelled like Red Bull the entire episode, which has just felt really appropriate.
Jordan:
Just setting the mood, you know. Great.
Lex:
Let’s sign this one out.
Jordan:
Let’s do it. Let me pull up that document.
Lex:
Yep, same.
Lex:
Sorry about that laugh. Jesus.
Jordan:
All right, this has been Or, Learn Parkour from Wholehearted Production Company.
Lex:
You can find us on Spotify, Apple Podcast, Stitcher, literally wherever you can find podcasts.
Jordan:
And then maybe probably some other places, look under a rock.
Lex:
Or YouTube.
Jordan:
Yeah, we’re on YouTube now. You probably, you will definitely find us there. Under a rock might be hit or miss. Special thanks to Krizia Perito for our cover art design. You can find her at Petalhop. That’s P-E-T-A-L-H-O-P on Instagram and Etsy. And if Twitter is still a thing by the time this episode airs.
Lex:
Which is, who’s to say? Thank you as well to Tom Rosenthal for our intro and outro song, There is a Dark Place off of the album Keep a Private Room Behind the Shop.
Jordan:
You can follow us on the soshe meeds. We are @orlearnparkour on Instagram and you can also check out our website, wearewpc.com.
Lex:
You can find links to all that good shit as well as links to our sources and transcripts and all that good stuff in our episode description.
Jordan:
You sure can. If you enjoy this podcast and want to hear more, now is a great time to click that follow, that subscribe or get ambitious with it, start your own podcast. You can find the link in that good, good episode description like Lex just mentioned. That’s our Buzzsprout affiliate link. If you click on that and sign up for a paid plan with Buzzsprout, you not only get all of their fantastic, wonderful features that we’ve been using for three years now, which is bonkers. For almost 50 episodes now. So you can tell it works pretty good. You get all of that and we get a little kickback to help keep the lights on.
Lex:
You could also support the show by talking to other people about it. If you wanna just vandalize the wall and write Or, Learn Parkour on it, don’t do that. Wink.
Jordan:
Legally, do not do that.
Lex:
Legally, don’t do that. Wink. Or you could just give us money, you could just find a link to our Ko-fi on our website or Instagram.
Jordan:
That one’s definitely legal.
Lex:
Drop a little bit of change in there. You could do that.
Jordan:
Tip your baristas.
Lex:
Are you? Yes, yes, you should also tip your baristas. For a second I was like, are we baristas? We’re just serving up hot cups of mouth sounds?
Jordan:
Why does that sound like some sort of terrible grunge ska crossover album from the nineties?
Lex:
Probably because it is or something.
Jordan:
Probably was. Yeah, I said it and then I was like, that’s just Seattle.
Lex:
Yeah. It is just Seattle. Oh, gosh. All right. Well, let’s go not get Dutch Bros because we can’t do that.
Jordan:
Yeah, I’ll go finish my knockoff Red Bull.
Jordan:
I’m Jordan.
Lex:
And I’m Lex.
Jordan:
And this has been Or, Learn Parkour. See you in two weeks.
